plant based scientific studies

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #31
    i6Shot after reading through your post I'm interested in reading further along that path. Can you provide some links, a book or other sources to dig a bit deeper? And where did you get all that knowledge? I always want to get a bit more informed but find it difficult to start somewhere.

    Comment


      #32
      i6Shot what Nihopaloa said. I want to know more, I am planning to do the 7 day plant based diet that was recently posted (primarily for convenience because the calories and macros have been calculated) that said I have serious saiyan training plan for the new year and will be outdoors often as well as starting to hike & camp so I may go vegetarian or 80/20 veggie.

      If you have links (or preferable links to actual books) that would be great.

      Comment


        #33
        i6Shot, holy crap. Well, thanks for correcting me, this was definitely interesting.

        Comment


          #34
          The debate around the way humans have evolved and survived for millennia is complicated and broad but unfortunately, it often gets presented very narrowly, mostly in terms of appeal to tradition. i6Shot’s post in my opinion not so much “sets the record straight” as it muddies the waters without sources and with some unsupported claims. It also feels very developed-world-centric, something out of a modern-day Paleo diet book. Please note that I am commenting on the content and not the person, whom I know nothing about.

          Yes, humans are in fact omnivores. This often gets framed in a way that makes people think that people should eat meat/animal products but I’d like to turn that around and say that this evolutionary adaptation gave us a better chance of survival as a previously herbivore species, back in the days of zero infrastructure, agriculture, medicine, technology and other perks of modern life. It gave us more options to eat and survive. If we’re talking the transition from primates to humanoids, protein was certainly one of the components of that transition. However, it is unlikely that our ancestors started hunting out of the blue and more likely that they started ingesting ants and worms, insects rich in protein, which might have contributed to a bigger brain and subsequent use of tools as well as a different gut microbiome.

          Paleolithic people did hunt, but to say their diet relied mostly on meat is inaccurate and mostly based on biased archaeological evidence (bone and stone survive, plants and wood do not). There was huge variety in what people ate and different tribes - even those living in relatively close proximity, had different approaches to survival. There was an interesting research paper that analysed bones from two different groups of prehistoric people in Belgium and Spain. They discovered that one group ate mostly meat and the other group ate almost exclusively plant foods.

          The idea that our ancestors ate “fatty meat” (fish excluded) is as flawed as the idea that broccoli and modern-day apples grew in the wild. The animals that the paleolithic people hunted were for the most part very lean, pure muscle - deer, birds etc. The eggs were tiny and dairy cows non-existent. It’s not only our plants that changed, the meat also did. Modern day chickens, with their pectoralis major muscles (“breasts”) so big that their legs cannot support their weight are just as “unnatural” as broccoli; as are pigs, kept in tight spaces, that get to 100kgs in a matter of months.

          Moving on from paleolithic times, it is estimated that agriculture and the use of grains started about 12.000 BC, although some research has shown that our ancestors started experimenting with agriculture by 23.000 BC. This had a profound impact on the way humans lived and ate - they adapted to new conditions - and not only them, but also their loyals friends, dogs, which unlike cats, which are obligate carnivores, can also get energy from grains and plant foods, similar to humans.

          The idea that meat has to be consumed daily/regularly doesn’t take into account thousands of years of people surviving on starches, grains, legumes and other plants with little or no meat at all. All through the Middle ages, the average European hardly ate any meat as it was reserved for the upper classes of society. Pre-WW2, most villagers in Europe ate meat maybe once a month or on special occasions. In Asia, large swaths of population to this day live mostly on rice and plant foods, with meat used as a condiment in soups and broths, if at all.

          The fact is that all major dietary associations agree that a plant-based diet is appropriate for people of all ages, including pregnant women and babies (American Dietetic Association (ADA), Dietitians of Canada (DC), Australian National Health and Medical Research Council (NHMRC), Deutsche Gesellschaft für Ernährung (DGE), British Dietetic Association (BDA), British Nutrition Foundation (BNF) etc.).

          The notion that a plant based diet is inappropriate because you have to supplement the B12 is also biased. Iodine is an element which most people get because it is added to table salt - unless you eat a lot of fish and seaweed - and no one is saying that we should not be omnivores because we don’t get all our nutrients from our “diet”. If we ate plants straight from the ground, we would likely get all the B12 we need, because the bacteria that produce it live in the soil. It is only because our vegetables are grown in hydroponic chambers or thoroughly washed (to avoid other pathogens also present in the soil) that the B12 has to be supplemented. On that note, research shows that up to two fifths of omnivores are deficient in B12 because their stomach linings no longer produce enough intrinsic factor needed to break apart the protein-bound B12. The B12 supplement is more efficiently absorbed, you cut out the middle man.

          In terms of physiology, we run pretty much on carbohydrates (glucose). Our muscles and organs need it, as does our brain - all of it, not just the eyes (?). The fatty acid molecules cannot pass the brain-blood barrier - something people on keto diets notice in the beginning stages of their diet as “brain fog”, until the production of ketones starts (ketones can pass through the barrier due to their small size). Yes, our bodies can adapt and produce glucose or its equivalent from fat but just because they can it doesn’t mean they should or that this is somehow beneficial (excluding certain medical conditions). Again, it is an adaptation to ensure survival if there is no food available i.e. fasting, not a recipe to live by. A person living in the developed world has no shortage of protein, because all plants contain it, albeit in varying amounts, and as long as the diet is varied and the person eats enough calories, all macronutrient - including essential amino acids - goals are met in healthy humans.

          Another aspect that often gets left out in these debates is instinct. Humans, when young, unlike other carnivores or animal omnivores, have zero instinct or capability to catch, kill, eat and digest raw meat. And if young humans do display a tendency towards, let’s say, tearing a live bunny to shreds or killing a cat, this is most often an early sign of psychopathy/sociopathy or abnormal mental development and not a sign of healthy offspring.

          If we decide to follow the money trail, we will find that the plant-based companies and products barely make a dent compared to animal-based foods. While the number of vegetarians/vegans is slowly rising, meat consumption and the consumption of other animal-based products has risen dramatically since the 1950s and even more so since the 2000s when Asians jumped on the Western diet train. Most foods produced and eaten by humans, especially everything processed, contain some animal ingredients. I invite anyone thinking about this topic to write down everything they eat in a week (or even a day) and see how many items do not contain any animal products at all (if you're really into it, consider also clothing, shoes, furniture etc.). The media is generally also biased against veganism and will regularly report the rare cases of vegans or their children dying but will not mention the diets of all the other people and their children who also die in tragic circumstances, of which there are many more. Unfortunately, sometimes being plant-based or vegan is considered ideologically related to the left (it is not), which may also make some people uneasy.

          My philosophy around choosing my diet revolves around adaptation and this will greatly depend on individual circumstances. Do I, a person living in the developed world in the 21st century with enough means to lead a normal life, choose a diet that is detrimental to my health, my environment and last but not least, contributes to the suffering of sentient beings? Do I rely on "tradition" or my taste buds to tell me what to eat? Or do I take into account the fact that the world has changed, that there is firm scientific evidence (and empirical as well, since there are many vegans still alive and kicking) that plant-based diets work well, and adapt to the current state of the world, where animal husbandry is one of the biggest causes of pollution and human disease and pick products from shelves - right next to animal-based ones - that satisfy all my nutritional needs and contribute to a healthier environment? For someone living in an environment where availability of plant foods is scarce or financially unavailable, the choice might not be the same. For me, it is crystal clear.

          Comment


            #35
            Just a not random question, is the Cornell China study still considered a reference to document the interest and possibility of vegetarian diet, or it is now long outclassed or by more modern studies, or its methodology called upon? I had found it fascinating, back then.

            Comment


              #36
              PetiteSheWolf what is known as the "China-Cornell-Oxford-Project" is still valid because of its methodology and large sample group. Good call to remember it and I am placing a link to it here, for this thread. There is also a video playlist at the Cornell website that can be seen here.

              Comment


                #37
                i6Shot thank you for contributing to this discussion. As Ann-Core noted, a contribution on this particular thread requires at least some science-backed evidence-based citation in order to help the validity of opinions and also to add to the educational value of this particular thread.

                Over the past week since my comment on this thread I have been looking at the latest research regarding Omega-3 supplements and the claims around Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA). I now need to add this article on the Omega-3 group and the association studies around it. For the benefit of this thread I note that association studies are essentially correlation studies. This makes them relatively weak when it comes to examining causation. The best study possible in terms of scientific results is a randomized control trial (also known as RCT) where subjects are randomly chosen to receive either a test dosage of what is being tested or receive a placebo (in order to establish a control group within the population being tested). RCT studies, to date, have found it difficult to replicate the positive effects of DHA. Additionally a meta-analysis of studies that combines the results of seventy-nine randomised trials involving 112,059 people challenges many of the ideas around the benefits of omega-3 and DHA.

                I understand that when it comes to scientific studies it is difficult to always understand their importance. Funding, methodology, and the type of study that was carried out influence the validity of scientific findings and what we can practically learn from them. This is why it is important to have these discussions and add to them high-quality research, when possible.

                Comment


                  #38
                  I've just been reading peoples posts (I haven't looked at all the links though, sorry) but from what I have seen, I had decided that I was going to test myself on a plant based diet in the new year but didn't have any idea on what to do, then the 7 day plant based mealplan was posted and I thought "that looks simple enough" but if the first week goes well (energy is good, not as sluggish and I am thinking about asking my local doctor to test my blood and stuff) then I'll do it for a month (keeping up the monitoring from the doctor).
                  I will also be (hopefully) training very vigorously in the new year (the plan has already been updated on my profile but not started) so I may even add to it as I might need extra calories (based on my goal of strength I believe that might need more protein and fat calories).
                  I will log everything and also update this thread on my experience, I may do it in weekly segments.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by Damer View Post
                    PetiteSheWolf what is known as the "China-Cornell-Oxford-Project" is still valid because of its methodology and large sample group. Good call to remember it and I am placing a link to it here, for this thread. There is also a video playlist at the Cornell website that can be seen here.
                    I had the honor to meet shortly T Colin Campbell , through someone who had worked with him, it was a lovely chat. That brings back good memories. My parents (who were present because the introducer was of my family) were flabbergasted to see that someone promoting vegetarianism could look so, how to say... regular, even classical

                    Comment


                      #40
                      PetiteSheWolf what an experience it must have been and yoru comment made me smile!

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Krystal Aranyani: Cured CBD oil: CuredNutrition.com Garden on Life Sports Protein Acai Matcha Tea for sleeping-chamomile, valarian root Magnesium Vegan multi vitamin Red Reishi Ashwaganda Ginger Shilajit Nutritional yeast Spirulina Herbal cleansing tea Chia seed Hemp seed Flax seed Oil of oregano

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Wow! So much information. Even in Canada there are diverse opinions of food. Last year Health Canada updated the Canada Food Guide; which promoted more vegetables, whole grains & less meat. It receive criticism from the Indigenous community & some Asian communities. There was also negative feedback from the food industry, which in turn was criticized as protectionist. Personally, I'm a "meat-asaurus." & have been all my life. Having said that; I know I am better off & feel much better, when I reduce my meat intake & increase vegetables. I try for 5-7 serving of veggies per day.
                          Personally, I believe the less processed your food is the better. After all, everything we put in our mouths is either "fighting disease or feeding it."

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Great thread Kakarot.
                            there is a huge amount of information, good and misleading and that produces a huge amount a potentially explosive discussion.
                            There is no perfect diet, just the same as there is no perfect workout program or the perfect person. Dont just believe what you read, test it experientially.
                            eat more veggies, less meat and more fiber, be your own lab.

                            Happy sitting bees. X

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Well said Rathgar and that is what I plan on doing in the new year.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                This stuff also excites me with all the new and continuing info coming out on the gut biome. Like PETERMORRIS966 I'm a huge protein eater (not always meat but I generally sit around 1.2g per lbs body weight) and switching to heavy veggie (or carb as they tend to be) and I start feeling sluggish real fast. I've been eating protein for so long my biome (this is my guess) is just setup to do well with it and switching would be the hard part as it would have to adapt. While this isn't impossible it would just take significant effort and time.

                                That all being said I'm really looking forward to the documentary that comes out covering the biome and eating impacts there as well as adaptive responses. Damer if you know any studies along those line could you add them here as well? Or if there is already some article links just send me that direction as I'm seriously behind on the science posts since moving.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X