A Doubt In Strength Protocol . ( To Failure)

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  • A Doubt In Strength Protocol . ( To Failure)

    So an currently doing strength protocol . And In day 1 all exercises are to failure . The first exercise is pushups to failure and I could do 20 (max with good form) in the first set . But I have only 20 seconds rest after the set so how can I recover with short period of time and do 20 pushups again . Or can I do a different number of reps in the next set , let's say 10 ? Because that's my failure as my muscles haven't recovered yet ?

  • #2
    Someone correct me if I'm wrong but to failure it means - do as many as you can before you can't do a single one more. So, it is very likely you will do less and less with every set because muscle gets exhausted. To answer your question, yes, that is expected result. Keep doing those pushups!

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    • #3
      if that is the case then i think you are not ready for this program. best thing to do is try to focus on "to failure" exercises like push ups.... and come back to this program when you think you are ready. the exercises in each program is carefully thought of and studied... and if i am not mistaken, 20secs rest or less is a general rule. besides it is so called "strenght" protocol in order to make you stronger with the difficulty of each set and exercises.. hope this helps.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Wolfy View Post
        Someone correct me if I'm wrong but to failure it means - do as many as you can before you can't do a single one more. So, it is very likely you will do less and less with every set because muscle gets exhausted. To answer your question, yes, that is expected result. Keep doing those pushups!
        oh yes, you can do less... (sorry) Archex

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Heero Potter View Post

          oh yes, you can do less... (sorry) Archex
          I knew it because everyone , No matter how strong they are once they reach their failure ,their muscle need a bit of time to recover. I guess that's why the number of reps decrease . I think I am ready and on Day 2 today

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Wolfy View Post
            Someone correct me if I'm wrong but to failure it means - do as many as you can before you can't do a single one more. So, it is very likely you will do less and less with every set because muscle gets exhausted. To answer your question, yes, that is expected result. Keep doing those pushups!
            Thanks Wolfy , You are the best

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Archex View Post

              I knew it because everyone , No matter how strong they are once they reach their failure ,their muscle need a bit of time to recover. I guess that's why the number of reps decrease . I think I am ready and on Day 2 today
              good job man! am on day 11 today

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Archex View Post
                So an currently doing strength protocol . And In day 1 all exercises are to failure . The first exercise is pushups to failure and I could do 20 (max with good form) in the first set . But I have only 20 seconds rest after the set so how can I recover with short period of time and do 20 pushups again . Or can I do a different number of reps in the next set , let's say 10 ? Because that's my failure as my muscles haven't recovered yet ?
                What Wolfy said.

                However Heero Potter also right in the fact that you shouldn't do SP - the requirement for that program is that you are able to do a minimum of 30 PU.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by J3ster View Post

                  What Wolfy said.

                  However Heero Potter also right in the fact that you shouldn't do SP - the requirement for that program is that you are able to do a minimum of 30 PU.
                  It's a suggestion, not a requirement. The only requirements on anything across the site is access to particular equipment to do certain workouts and programs, like dumbbells for Ironborn.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by wjs View Post

                    It's a suggestion, not a requirement. The only requirements on anything across the site is access to particular equipment to do certain workouts and programs, like dumbbells for Ironborn.
                    Seems like a requirement to me.
                    If you are considering trying this program you should be able to do a minimum of 30 push-ups in one go.
                    Ironborn also has a weight requirment - that is you have to have 20RM weights for Alt. bicep curls. If you're going to use 2 kg for Ironborn it's probably going to turn into a waste of time.

                    Same applies to SP - sure, you can do it anytime. You can even do it if you can't do pushups - same as you can walk through the wall instead of using doors.

                    Making stuff accessible to everyone is a noble goal but some things will require a specific level of expertise regardless.

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                    • #11
                      Jester all our programs have been tested with a large group of individuals across all age and gender groups with different backgrounds. We then use the feedback we get from those test groups to tweak our workouts and programs to get the best possible results.

                      All numbers, no matter if weight, reps, sets or whatever are based on the average we get from this testing phase. It doesn't mean these numbers work for every single person. If we suggest 30 push ups and you can only do 20, that's fine. You're still challenging yourself to your absolute maximum. Will you be able to do the program with the intended reps, sets and recovery times? Probably not. But you will still benefit from doing the routines at your absolut best and therefore challenge yourself and get better.

                      Nothing is set in stone. And it's definitely no waste of time We encourage everyone to at least try the workouts and get out of your comfort zone.

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                      • #12
                        TheRaven It's not a question of benefitting or not, but maximizing gains - a beginner would have a much better time doing lvl3 workouts than crushing themselves against lvl 5 obliterators.

                        If everyone can do everything then why have difficulty levels at all? There's getting out of your comfort zone and there's whipping yourself into doing something that you can't do and those are two different things.

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                        • #13
                          TheRaven

                          Interesting. Does that mean in the testing phase for the programs and workouts that you guys have everyone do everything to failure, and keep doing sets until everyone finally drops?

                          Are the averages of that the sources of the recurring numbers like the 3 sets lvl 1, 5 sets lvl 2, 7 sets lvl 3?

                          What's the significance of the exercises that are still listed as "to failure" in this? Why did you guys leave those like that instead of doing the averages like usual?

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                          • #14
                            Daegan - we do have a certain outline when bringing workouts to the test groups - this includes reps and sets. But we will tweak the numbers when we see that the reps we intended are too hard or too easy. Yes, 3, 5 and 7 sets are the numbers that have proven to work best for the different levels

                            We do list exercises as "to failure" when there is no good average. With exercises like push ups and pull ups for example we see a rather drastic range, everything from 5 to 50 in one go. With that you can't really take the average and have all parties benefit equally. It's different with exercises that range from 15 to 20 reps - 18 will definitely challenge the lower end while still be hard enough for the upper end of that range. So, with these exercises that spread out to wide we still list them as "to failure" to make sure everybody pushes their limit

                            J3ster it absolutely is a question of benefiting and especially of maximizing gains. If beginners would constantly do beginner workouts (or workouts close to their capacity) they would take a long time to progress fitness wise. When doing advanced workouts they expect the workout to be hard anyway and tend to work harder. So, even when failing they'll see more progress by confronting their body with a higher demand. Doing and "failing" a workout that seems out of your range still has a better psychological influence than staying on the same level you were before.

                            That being said, all the workouts and programs we release are scaleable (well, 99% of them), you can even substitute exercises for easier ones. So, while may not be able to do the program as intended, you can scale it to your level and still get the benefit of the program's programming (the sequence of exercises, cycling of muscle groups involved,...etc.). Difficulty levels are a guideline to give you a glimpse at what to expect, it's not a requirement you have to fulfil in order to do the workouts / programs.
                            Regarding Strength Protocol we specifically state that beginners can do the program too (see full post here):

                            Originally posted by neilarey View Post
                            If you are a beginner, you can still attempt the program on Level I but take it slow giving yourself plenty of time to recover between exercises - you can also take every 4th day off.
                            We're not saying everybody should always jump right into level 5 workouts, because there are workouts that might be unsafe for absolute beginners (handstand workouts, muscle ups,...), you're absolutely right in that regard. But strength protocol is not one of those and is - as I said - scaleable.
                            So, we're not denying beginners level 5 workouts per se

                            I hope this makes sense.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by TheRaven View Post
                              ...
                              If we suggest 30 push ups and you can only do 20, that's fine. You're still challenging yourself to your absolute maximum.
                              ...
                              We encourage everyone to at least try the workouts and get out of your comfort zone.
                              That's the philosophy that I understand about the personal challenge

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