Blatant sexism?

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  • Blatant sexism?

    So, I've just noticed that there are literally no lvl 5 workouts with DareGirl™ illustrations. This is a staggering blow to equality. As well as there being just 1 bar workout illustrated with DareGirl™ to overwhelming 29 with DareGuy™. I think he needs to check his privilege here.

    We can also see that strength workouts have a ratio of 1 DareGirl™ illustrated to almost 6 with DareGuy™ while in cardio the rate is 1 to 3, secretly steering women towards cardio and stereotypical gender role in fitness.

    If we take a look at equipment department where the state of affairs even more disastrous - we'll see that out of all workouts that feature pull-ups (30) only 1 (one!) is presented with DareGirl™ as a model. Things are slightly better in regards to dumbbells with a ratio of 10 to 1. And I'm not even talking about programs.

    Something has to be done about it. #GoEquality

    Now, seriously, I just wanted to ask if there are any methodological differences as to the way workouts are constructed? I've read this article and now I'm really curious.
    Last edited by J3ster; March 18th, 2017, 03:57 PM. Reason: dam granma

  • #2
    If you search "female illustrations" (use full site search, the Hive search stinks) you'll find a lot of interesting threads on the topic. This was my favorite response: http://darebee.com/hive/info/41865-w...2372#post42372

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    • #3
      I'm not offended by the way things are portrayed. If you wanna have it your mind that it's sexist, then that's your opinion. However, why not just look at it as gender neutral, or really why let gender bother you at all, because one can do any of the exercises if they desire. Gender portrayal is irrelevant to me. If I'm interested in a workout and can physically do it, then I will!

      There is the Athena's Playbook that has all female portrayal. http://darebee.com/programs/athenas-playbook.html

      Additionally, there are 138 workouts that portray women. Just sayin'......

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      • #4
        I think the DareBee philosophy on this is a clear one and could be called “sexist” from a man's point of view (don't get me wrong, I really think DareBee is near to full on right with this). It is for a woman mostly easier to do a workout portraying a man, but many men feel (at least a bit) odd about doing a workout with pictures of a woman on the sheet.

        From my own experience it took myself to convince myself to do some workouts with female pictures. But now I feel pretty comfortable to do especially some of the lower body workouts, which are pretty nice.

        See this more as a service to the weak gender (a.k.a. us men who have second thoughts on doing some workouts), than as sign for whom those workouts are made.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by skyrim hold guard View Post

          From my own experience it took myself to convince myself to do some workouts with female pictures. But now I feel pretty comfortable to do especially some of the lower body workouts, which are pretty nice.

          See this more as a service to the weak gender (a.k.a. us men who have second thoughts on doing some workouts), than as sign for whom those workouts are made.
          And this is exactly why gender representation does matter. Yes, most woman have less problems doing stuff with female pictures, but that is because we simply have to get used to stuff like this or we miss out on a lot. A lot of stuff (and I'm not only talking about Darebee, but in general, for example certain movie genres) is in the majority male focused, so men can be more "picky", while expecting the women to simply deal with.

          Don't get me wrong, I don't want to complain about Darebee, they are much better then others. Personally I also have no problems doing workouts with male pictures, but am happy if I find a cool one with female pictures. I also get the point that majority of the pictures obviosly are simply made for the main target group, simple as that. I more wanted to make a general statement, since the topic came up.

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          • #6
            Rissa yeah, this is a very complicated point, where I think this is the wrong place to debate about. I get what you are talking about, but in this discussion I partly understand the arguments of both sides and won't take part in one of them. There is so far no alternative which fully convinced me and so I'm one of the “idiots” which stays with the status quo...

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            • #7
              Here's my take on this: At the moment darebee still has to bend to the current culture, otherwise it will become too unaccessible and thus potentially die.
              One day darebee will be strong enough to instead bend culture to its will and do the illustration-gender-ratio that they really want to do.

              Or to phrase it a bit more cynically: As soon as we start constantly paying them enough the female illustrations will start popping up more regularly.

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              • #8
                First off, I'd like to second K e l l y - that post explains things really well.
                Secondly, it is a difficult issue. Yes, representation matters, and that goes for gender as well as ethnicity. So I totally hear you J3ster . Personally, while I have no problem doing workouts with male illustrations, I do feel that the ones with females are "more meant for me" somehow.
                Then there are the annoying "real" differences between the typical male and female bodies. Pull-ups ARE easier for men, consequently more men are able to do them, so having them in male-illustrated workouts make sense. Does it discourage women from trying to achieve a pull-up? Possibly. I don't know.
                But - and that also goes for the really tough five-bar workouts and programs - if a woman is at the point to consider doing one of those, chances are she's been through all the "isn't that for guys?", "will I get too muscular?" "will I still be feminine (whatever that is supposed to mean) enough?" "is this too hard for me?", has decided to do her thing and doesn't mind looking at pictures of men while doing it. It may even be a matter of pride to be able to "hang with the guys" who are so much tougher and stronger... and yes, exactly, that's a whole new problem right there.

                To wrap it up, I do believe that the whole way Western cultures handle especially women's bodies is unhealthy. Just some random examples:
                - I was shocked a few months ago to read that many world-class female tennis players hated pictures of them where their arm muscles appeared "too bulky". Hello? Those are what make you world-class and you certainly worked your *ss of to get them, so show some pride! (Also they're beautiful, but maybe that's just me.)
                - Throwing, running, or punching "like a girl" is an insult. At the same time, if a woman looks "masculine", that's an insult, too. So apparently we're not supposed to look like girls, but we're also not supposed to look like guys while doing sports. So maybe sports aren't for us at all?
                - Also, when will people stop focusing on looks so much at all? I watched a lot of Olympics last summer, and while nobody commented on male long-distance runners being "too thin" or "fragile" (and of course many of them were right there at the edge of the bell curve - you don't want to carry extra weight over 42k), female disc throwers or shotputters can apparently be too big.
                - What's up with the skimpy outfits? Why is it the norm in many sports that grown women practice it (again, often on world-class level) while wearing uniforms that would not be out of place on youporn? (I'm not talking about swimming, diving, and gymnastics. I guess there are practical considerations there. But what about tennis and volleyball?)

                At the same time, I firmly believe that Darebee is part of the solution rather than the problem.

                That notwithstanding, I would LOVE (and do!!!) a yoga routine with a male illustration.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by J3ster View Post
                  Now, seriously, I just wanted to ask if there are any methodological differences as to the way workouts are constructed? I've read this article and now I'm really curious.
                  This. J3ster , just wanted to let you know I did understand the point of your original post and that the first four paragraphs were primarily "jesting" (pun ) It's a good question.

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                  • #10
                    Well, I don't really care, I just want to be able to do tough workouts while looking at fit girls, is that so much to ask for?

                    I do find this common stereotype that touching weights or strength training turns women into bulging muscle-monsters to be extremely annoying.
                    ​​​​​​(fit is sexy)

                    P.S. "Punching like a girl" is an insult only if you're a man, otherwise it's a constatation of fact, women on average have a weaker punch.

                    P.P.S. MissSmilla, what are you talking about? Yoga guy is ugleyy! Yikes!

                    P.P.P.S. Kelly, thanks for the link!

                    P.P.P.P.S. Also girls get all sorts of fancy haircuts while the guy is stuck with the stupid one!

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                    • #11
                      It's been a while since we talked about it last It's a good topic and we should talk about it, every now and then.

                      All the previous reasons and issues are still valid. We still have to walk the fine line of usability and accessibility, we have to deal with the fact that a workout will not be utilized as much if we use only female images... BUT a few things have changed since I last weighed in on the subject. In fact, we have been actively addressing the issue of the ratio and hopefully we have improved a lot in that respect.

                      Our female-illustration library has grown significantly (it now almost matches guys) and we now add female-based workouts on a regular basis - in the past it used to happen once in a blue moon. The variety of workouts has changed a lot as well. We used to only use female illustrations in workouts when it could not have been avoided (e.g., "Alice", "Valkyrie"). We are improving there too

                      There are problems with that as well of course. Not every woman wants or even relates to a bad-ass routine. In terms of demand, most women still prefer workouts "For arms", "For Butt", or "For Thighs". It's what we expect from a workout - a promise to make our bodies better. It's understandable and it's totally ok to want to look good (we all do!) so we design those workouts. Then occasionally, we also say: "Psst, would you like to feel like an Amazon? Or a Shieldmaiden? Or kick ass like Jade or G.I.Jane?". Today, there aren't many takers I am afraid but it doesn't mean we are going to stop. One of the things we want to do is to inspire women to feel more in control, get stronger rather than just thinner. For me personally it is extremely important that we do.

                      It is an incredibly slow process as you can imagine but what I mean to say is "We hear you and we agree". We don't expect to solve the sexism problem on our own and somehow bend the (largely unspoken) rules but we would like to make a difference here.

                      Now to the actionable. I would like to ask everyone on this thread to suggest a few bad-ass themes for girl-based workouts and I promise we will work on them I can't promise an overnight change, we've been aware and actively addressing the issues for two years now but we are addressing it.

                      There you go I hope I haven't forgotten anything... It is a complicated subject but it is always at the back of my mind when I approve themes, you can be sure of that.

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                      • #12
                        I recently saw Vaiana (Moana is the original title I believe) in the theatre so I believe a sailing/surfing workout would be cool.

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                        • #13
                          I admit that the badass workouts with female images were part of what attracted to Darebee. There are a million workouts telling guys they can be Batman. I just want one telling me to be Batgirl. I'm sorry the demographics look like I'm in the minority there (without wanting to take anything away from other people).

                          And thank you for addressing this, neilarey . You're awesome and an inspiration.

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                          • #14
                            neilarey about your action item. I'm not really into gaming (I play Candy Crush ) or superheroes but you touched on a few of the "female" classes and I would think you could use those as additional inspiration (Mother of Dragons, Sorceress, for example, I didn't realize there were already so many, go DAREBEE.) I would love to see a female version of Military Fit. And when I say that know that again I personally could not care less what gender (or species!) are portrayed in your workouts, it has no affect on me. But, I think that one would be pretty cool, the first dual gender program...

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                            • #15
                              Oh. Another thing that you could do is film existing programs, which I know is a plan anyways, with a woman. Male illustrations but you or another female in the video.

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